Talk:Imperial destroyer (788 UC era)

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Crew Size

The DVD features list a crew of 16. Now given that Julian managed to capture a destroyer, obviously the crew cannot be too huge. However this creates a stark discrepancy compared to the Alliance destroyer, which is given as having a crew of 164. Is there any specific confirmation of crew size anywhere in the series or gaiden? Even the crew size of the older model destroyer Hameln II would help set a benchmark. That is given as 25 in the DVD features but is this confirmed or contradicted anyhwere in the Gaiden?

I have also visually come to a count of at least 11 as the sketches show a bridge crew of 7 (including captain and aide), and in Episode 47 we see the captain escorted by 4 guards. Iracundus 14:52, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

No confirmation / data spring to mind at the moment. 16 does indeed seems unreasonably low. Re: the rear launcher of 16 missiles seen in Episode 51, I too thought this was on the rear hull, but its actually still on the forward hull i.e. the box where all the other armament is (as distinct from the engine "stalk"). If you look at the missile tubes opening screenshot and compare it to the main picture, you'll see the launcher I mean (its sort of behind and to the port/left of what I assume is the bridge - the structure with six holes (cannons?) that protrudes out from the dorsal section. Frame by frame, the tubes open, it (and I assume one that we can't see on the other side, which is obscured by that same protrusion due to the angle) shoots 16 missiles out (presumably cold launch) then once they're out their rocket motors ignite and they fly forward. Vympel 22:54, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

I see what you mean about the cold launch. Those same rear launchers in episode 97 however fire 2 larger missiles from each side, and these arc up and around to fly forward. So it seems at least some of these launchers can vary in what munitions they carry. Iracundus 00:21, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Yeah seems that way. Heh, given the huge variety and number of missile launchers (and heck, the things have reloads - they can fire more than one salvo!) I'm wondering if 16 crew isn't all they can fit in without the crew having to wear the missile ammo as hats. Vympel 00:23, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

It does make one wonder why the Empire needs missile ships at all given their destroyers seem to fit that role already. However that is why I wondered about the crew size because it is such a big difference from the Alliance, yet the Imperial destroyer isn't THAT much smaller in size and we never hear about the Imperial destroyer being massively more powerful, only that both sides are comparable. So either all those missiles are a lot less powerful than they look, or the Alliance destroyer has something else going for it, perhaps those 6 frontal beam cannons? The other issue I thought about is if the Imperial crew size were as large as the Alliance destroyer then how Julian could capture one ship as surely they could have rushed and overwhelmed Julian's party through sheer numbers. Iracundus 00:30, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

I reckon its the frontal beam cannons. There must be a reason why the Imperial destroyer has 52 cannons and the Alliance destroyer can make do with six - and these six have been seen coring an Imperial battleship (Episode 80, screenshot of it in my last SDN entry). To acheieve the same, the Imperial destroyer needs almost 9 times the guns (Episode 43). I think 16 is probably right given that Julian was able to take one. Also looking at "Mutineer" in Gaiden Season 2, the number of men I could count seemed close to a similarly low number. Vympel 00:46, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Although if the Imperial destroyer accomplishes comparable performance with a crew of 16 vs. 164, that is an over 10x difference in efficiency. Though I suppose the Alliance cruiser does the same as well, with 393 crew versus the Imperial cruiser's 670, though proportionally that is a much smaller difference than the destroyer crew ratios. Iracundus 01:14, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Going through the Gaiden again, I have thus far visually counted at least 24 crew members for the Hameln II. Thus far no direct conflict with the DVD feature sources. Iracundus 08:58, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Yeah I'm not surprised. Production and licensed material stuff for LOGH has always seemed pretty closeknit to me, and the opportunities for contradictions are kept fairly light. Vympel 10:51, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Oh and re: the crew disparity of cruisers, the situation is muddied somewhat since the Imperial cruiser seems significantly larger. Vympel 11:15, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

For the standard destroyer, I'm wondering whether some of the guards seen in episode 47 are general crew, because by my count so far it is 7 bridge crew, 4 guards, 2 Valkyrie pilots (not directly seen but surely these have to be dedicated pilots) adding up to 13. That leaves only 3 for things like engineering and medical. On the Hameln II, we see there are 2 medical staff, but I suppose the standard destroyer might cut down there. Assuming 1 medical and 1 engineering, that leaves only 1 general crew if we assume the guards are dedicated guards. Hence my wondering whether they are general purpose crewman performing double duty.

About the cruiser sizes, yes, that is a good point in that the Alliance cruiser is smaller. So we get the situation of the Imperial destroyer having comparable to the more heavily crewed Alliance destroyer, and the smaller Alliance cruiser having roughly comparable performance to the Imperial cruiser. I suppose there are the other factors of endurance that would also affect things. I would imagine the missile heavy Imperial destroyer is reliant on regular resupply, so its performance might drop in a longer fight compared to the apparently less missile heavy Alliance destroyer. Iracundus 11:43, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Ok now I've done it. I think I've found discrepancy. In the Mutineer, Chapter III, when Reinhard is in the hostage situation on the bridge, I count 13 on the bridge. There are the 2 existing medical staff and the injured captain. The chief engineer and the 3 enlisted characters on the engineering deck, for 21 in total. But then there are shots of an additional 6 enlisted crew in the engineering section, another 2 on their bunks in their quarters, and another 6 in the canteen. It is one single moment in time so those random enlisted people cannot be appearing twice or double counted. The total comes to 34 minimum. Post-hostage situation, the injured captain in his chair has a total of 4 medical staff around him. That makes 36 minimum. However given how long it took for me to find this discrepancy while consciously trying to keep head count, I am not sure whether any normal viewer would notice. Iracundus 12:01, 19 January 2012 (UTC)