Talk:Legend of Galactic Heroes: Die Neue These

==Names==
Added appropriate links to front page and sidebar. Premature, I know: but I'm ''excited''! Anyway, we have a bit of a problem if (as, I think, we can reasonably expect) the new series is titled, simple, "LOGH." Even though the page is for the original series is [[Legend of Galactic Heroes (OVA)]], we call it "Legend of Galactic Heroes" in common use. For now, for the only instance where it's applicable, I'm simply referring to the new series as "Legend of Galactic Heroes (2015)," assuming that it will air in 2015, as this clearly indicates that it is the new adaptation. Borrowed the form from the fan-name for J.J. Abrams' first Star Trek movie, because ''no one in the world seems to know how to name things any more.'' [[User:Canary|Canary]] 04:25, 19 August 2014 (UTC)
:I, on the other hand, remain cautious because I feel that it will be difficult to surpass the original adaptation (except for the animation possibly). Whatever they do, I sincerely hope that if they are going to adapt the main novels, they should adapt it completely like the OVA and not compressing plots or outright omitting the later volumes. [[User:Glacierfairy|Glacierfairy]] 11:44, 19 August 2014 (UTC)
::I wouldn't hold my breath on better animation. They'll probably use a lot of CGI, and the original OVA had some of the best animation I've ever seen outside of feature films. As for the adaptation, maybe I'm too cynical, but I really doubt they're going to do much more than the first few novels. (I expect 24-26 episodes total). Which I don't mind too much. Maybe it's because I haven't read those omitted novels and am basing my understanding off the OVAs, but it seems to be that the "crux" of the story is the parallel narrative of Yang and Reinhard. [[User:Canary|Canary]] 14:15, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
:::How many of the novels were omitted from the OVAs?  And generally speaking, what was the main plot and where did they fit into the OVA timeline?  I have read the Battle of Dagon one but outside of that I am completely unaware.  Sorry for the specific questions but this is something that has made me quite curious for a while. [[User:Strayor|Strayor]] 06:01, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
::::From what I understand, all the novels from the main series were adapted in the OVAs. Some details were lost during the adaptation process though, which you can find out by reading Tracy Chu's translations. I have also tried to highlight the major discrepancies (if any) between the novels and the OVAs in the OVA episode pages here. As for the gaiden (side stories), only ''Julian's Iserlohn Diary'' (a novel) and the aforementioned ''Chronicle of the Battle of Dagon'' (a short story) has not been animated at all. One of the gaiden novels, ''Star Crusher'', was partially adapted in the form of the main OVA episodes {{e|009}} and {{e|011}}, as well as {{tbt|01|02}} in the second gaiden OVA series, and finally the movie {{mciss}}. Hope this helps! [[User:Glacierfairy|Glacierfairy]] 15:14, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
:::::It does!  Thank you for taking the time to let me know!  ''Star Crusher'' sounds like one hell of a story arc if it blended in all of those vastly different episodes into one story.  There's my next item to pine over I guess.  I'll also get back to editing articles.  My wife and I had our second baby so I was out of action for a while.  Thanks for the timely response as always.[[User:Strayor|Strayor]] 16:29, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
::::::No problem, and welcome back. =) [[User:Glacierfairy|Glacierfairy]] 01:54, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

==Obvious Problem==
Of course, it's entirely possible that this will be another OVA, or even a movie. Or ONA. [[User:Canary|Canary]] 04:28, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

==Signs and Portents==
I went ahead and made a page for the new series. We can change the name later if we need to, I just went with what seemed simplest. We don't really know anything about the new adaptation so the page is pretty threadbare at the moment. We do, however, need to discuss how we approach the new adaptation here at Gineipaedia, preferably before it begins to air. Specifically: we currently operate with the OVA series as the primary canon. So what happens if something in the new adaptation contradicts something in the old? That kind of thing. I don't really think we have too much to worry about, since it's highly unlikely the new adaptation will come close to approaching the comprehensiveness of the original OVA series, so we can probably just keep going the way we're going. If the new adaptation deviates heavily from the original OVAs, however, we're gonna have a lot of trouble. Given the timing of the initial announcement, I expect (assuming the new adaptation is a TV anime) we'll start getting more and more information on the staff relatively soon with the series airing sometime in 2015, so now seems like as good a time as any to start thinking about things.[[User:Canary|Canary]] 08:40, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
:If the new adaptation is going to follow the original novels very closely, then there should not have any major deviations as the OVA apparently did an excellent job in adapting the original novels (and if the Japanese Wikipedia article on LoGH is to be believed, the OVA actually streamlined quite a number of awkward dialogue in the novels). The only problem I could foresee at the moment is the treatment of Iserlohn Fortress, because its iconic liquid metal armour was in fact exclusive to the OVA. If the new series decides to ditch that in favour of novel canon, I really have no idea how to deal with it. =( [[User:Glacierfairy|Glacierfairy]] 10:21, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

:::Hm.... Maybe just something like a notation in the background information section? Iserlohn being more like a death star is a big aesthetic difference, but not a big content difference.
:::well, we've got plenty of time to hash things out. Its entirely possible that the new series will be awful and we won't do much about it--and the opposite danger, it could become so popular as to overshadow the original.
:::The problem we have is that kine's hierarchy of canon doesn't accommodate parallel media. So one of those little things we'll have to deal with, for example, is whether or not to primarily use screen capture am from the OVAs because their more comprehensive, or to replace what we can with what will presumably be images of much better fidelity and detail from the new series.[[User:Canary|Canary]] 10:48, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

::::Wait, what are we talking about? Whatever hierarchy of canon we have doesn't accomodate parallel media, but it will have to. I see it this way - there won't be a single page about Iserlohn fortress. There will be two. The OVA one, and the new 2015 series one. And never the twain shall meet. There are going to be two entirely different series and any notion of replacing images from the OVA with that of the new series is just ... no. No. [[User:Vympel|Vympel]] 14:44, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

:::::Well, yeah. I wasn't suggesting that at all. For a practical suggestion on how to approach it, rather than create parallel pages (that would be really cumbersome) I think it would be easier to simply add new sections at the bottom of each page (where necessary, of course) that is something to the effect of "Differences in the TV version" or something like that. Maybe in the appendices somewhere? This is with the assumption that content in the new adaptation will be largely identical to that of the older adaptation, and therefore it would be far more efficient to spend a little bit of text to explain the "differences" than to create duplicate pages entirely.

:::::: What's the point? We already know what's going to happen. Unless they're taking the story in a new direction, this is sort of a pointless exercise. [[User:FPA Forever|FPA Forever]] 

:::::Especially since many of the pages are still incomplete. I don't think any of us want to wake up to find a hundred plus page duplicates that are partially complete in different areas. It'd be a nightmare. [[User:Canary|Canary]] 16:53, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

::::::Memory Alpha does parallel pages for the new Star Trek movies. Like so: http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/James_T._Kirk; http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/James_T._Kirk_%28alternate_reality%29 This makes sense to me because the new media should be considered in its own right, not merely be viewed as an afterthought to put away in the appendix. We're talking an entire parralel storyline here. And sure a lot of pages are incomplete but that's the way wikis often are. Eventually it'll be finished. As to the adaptation being identical to the OVA - I don't think that's likely. You're talking an all new production team from a different company adapting the novels all over again. They're not going to be guided by the existing series (for better or worse, we'll see). I'm banking on pretty much everything to be substantially different. [[User:Vympel|Vympel]] 04:58, 23 August 2014 (UTC)

:::::::That's a false analogy. The JJ films are not remakes or adaptations of existing content. They're wholly new and separate media. Yang Wenli in the OVA series, however, is the same person he will be in the TV anime, and the same person he is in the Gaiden series. The distinction between the two (three) James Kirks is necessary because each character is a different person with a different history and different personality. What we're most likely to run into in the future, here, is two different "versions" of Yang Wenli with the same personality, history, etc. Its illogical to make duplicate pages when they will be 99% identical.

:::::::And I would point out that this conversation is very similar to one Line and I had re: splitting the Galactic Empire page into two different pages to accommodate the NGE. Many of the arguments voiced then apply now, multiplied by the 1000+ pages that would be subject to duplication. And that's not even considering duplicate tags. I think duplicate pages would create an enormous mess that Gineipaedia simply does not have the staff to deal with. At that point, there may as well be a separate wiki for the new stuff. [[User:Canary|Canary]] 20:20, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

::::::::Unless something shocking happens, the new TV anime should IMO be considered wholly new and seperate media. The idea that it is going to so closely follow the existing OVA is just not believable to me. I can't think of when that has ever happened. Take Yang. The script will not be the same. The actors won't be the same. The directing won't be the same. What the new team brings to the production - in general - will not be the same. All of this will add up and will change the character compared to the OVA version.

As an aside, the Gaiden clearly takes place in the exact same universe as the OVA series, being prequels. The OVA and the Gaiden are not two seperate things, as they're clearly taking place in the same universe. This new show will be its own universe.

As to the Galactic Empire / NGE, its not really on point. In the one case you're talking about a nation state and its direct political successor - merely a dynastic change - taking place wholly in universe. Duplication is totally unnecessary in that respect - it'd be sort of like making two seperate pages for London based on whether the Plantaganets or another house is in charge on Wikipedia.  The concern shouldn't be 'mess', it should be whether content deserves its own page.[[User:Vympel|Vympel]] 07:25, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

== News on Re-adaptation ==

Official website for the re-adaptation has opened: http://gineiden-anime.com Confirmed to air in 2017. Animation by Production I.G  [[User:Zepwich|Zepwich]] 15:01, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
:Nice catch! [[User:Glacierfairy|Glacierfairy]] 03:30, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

::Damn, was hoping for some artwork! [[User:Vympel|Vympel]] 12:31, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

Heads up. There is an event on the 20th of May in Odaiba, this is different to Wright Staff's usual monthly streams. Some staff from Production I.G. will be present as well as Tanaka himself, it's likely that they will be releasing more information on the 2017 series. 
The event will be streamed [http://live.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv260256516 here] and it begins at 19:00 JST and you can also find more information on the event [http://tcc.nifty.com/cs/catalog/tcc_schedule/catalog_160419205205_1.htm here]
:The event ended a short while ago. It was quiet good but unfortunately they did not show a PV or key art for the new adaptation. They did however confirm that the character designs will "new". Hopefully this means they won't be using the Fujisaki designs. [[User:Zepwich|Zepwich]] 13:16, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
::I wonder how new is "new". If by new they meant radically changing from the OVA series, then that would already detract the viewing experience (guess I'm still biased to the original adaptation...). [[User:Glacierfairy|Glacierfairy]] 15:20, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
:::Given its a new adaptation of the original novels, it stands to reason that it will not resemble the original adaptation in pretty much any way whatsoever, except for the storyline. [[User:Vympel|Vympel]] 00:37, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

[http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2017-03-10/dmm-establishes-dmm-pictures-label-to-enter-anime-industry/.113248 DMM Establishes DMM Pictures Label to Enter Anime Industry], stating they are also involved with Production I.G's readaptation of Legend of Galactic Heroes. [[User:Zepwich|Zepwich]] 14:42, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

:Interesting! Makes me wonder how big this readaptation would be. [[User:Glacierfairy|Glacierfairy]] 02:00, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

The [http://gineiden-anime.com/ official website]  and [https://twitter.com/gineidenanime Twitter account] has posted the first key visual. Furthermore, [http://gineiden-anime.com/event.html an event has been announced] for September 20th where they will reveal the cast, staff and a PV.

:I guess I'm just nostalgic, but I really really hope that Production I.G does not mess with the character and ship designs too much. I like their work in ''Joker Game'', so I have great expectations for them in that department. It's a pity the voice cast will be completely overhauled though, but that can't be helped. [[User:Glacierfairy|Glacierfairy]] 01:49, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

::Hopefully it will come out sometime before 2018 and that we can get an English subbed version for those outside of Japan. —[[User:Goldenbaum Loyalist|Goldenbaum Loyalist]] 02:29, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

:There definitely seem to be stylistic nods in the details of that uniform, which thankfully does not seem to be the excessively frilly one of the new manga.  [[User:Iracundus|Iracundus]] 15:46, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

As mentioned in the front page, the website for the new adaptation has been updated. Based on the [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXEm5aaWHgI trailer] it seems that they will not deviate too much from the OVA character designs. The warships seem to be using kinetic weapons though, which will take time to get used to. And it also looks like they will not be using classical music for the soundtrack, which is a shame. More importantly, I wonder what are we going to do with the title. For now I have just tacked on the German subtitle onto "Legend of Galactic Heroes" but I'd like to know if it's better to just fully translate the title instead. Thoughts? [[User:Glacierfairy|Glacierfairy]] 15:33, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

:I share the concerns with what appear to be majority kinetic weapons. The new interpretation of the OVA ship designs looks pretty amazing though. I'm not really sure that 12-episodes plus three movies (why do it this way?) will do the books justice, either. [[User:Vympel|Vympel]] 15:46, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
:On second thought I'm thinking those weapons may be 'pulse' type energy weapons rather than kinetics. There's also some solid beams. [[User:Vympel|Vympel]] 15:58, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

::Hmm, I think you are right. It still feels weird to me because I'm too used to the blue beams though. And I really wonder if they are serious in adapting the entire series. Their release structure just doesn't feel conducive for a full adaptation. [[User:Glacierfairy|Glacierfairy]] 16:24, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

::I interpreted their shots to be like Star Wars "lasers/"blasters", i.e. energy bolts with travel time.  I am not so hot about the ship designs though.  The ''Brünhild'' has its sleek profile broken up by all those bumps and protrusions.  The Imperial ships are a bit generic looking.  The Alliance ships look like ugly wide slab sided blocks.  The original logic of minimizing exposed frontal surface area while trying to maximize beams made sense.  [[User:Iracundus|Iracundus]] 10:16, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

:::http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2017-09-20/new-legend-of-the-galactic-heroes-anime-reveals-cast-staff-promo-video-dates-titles/.121619 According to this, the three movies will be four episodes each and seem to constitute series 2? [[User:Vympel|Vympel]] 00:08, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

::::It does looks like series 2. I just wonder why they would release it in a movie format instead of a TV anime series. [[User:Glacierfairy|Glacierfairy]] 00:24, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

:::::Maybe a movie format is more self contained and manageable in terms of time than having to commit to and sell a TV series?  The original started off with movie as a test of concept, then OVA series, partly from funding and timing issues I think. This new series may be testing the waters with the first season which I understand to just cover the first novel. The Imperial bridge scene for example seems to show the Battle of Astarte. [[User:Iracundus|Iracundus]] 10:16, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

::::::That does makes sense. Though this will make this page a mess, if both the TV series and the movies are titled with "Die Neue These". I guess we will just deal with it when the time comes. [[User:Glacierfairy|Glacierfairy]] 00:50, 22 September 2017 (UTC)

== Disambiguation ==

The disambiguating qualifier on this should probably be ''(TV series)'' or ''(2017 TV series)'' — this is the prevailing standard on Wikipedia (cf. naming conventions for [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_%28television%29 television] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Anime-_and_manga-related_articles#Article_names_and_disambiguation anime]). <span style="color: #bbb">&nbsp;♥</span>&nbsp;[[User:kine|<span style="color: #359fef !important;">kine</span>]] @ 06:56, 16 August 2015 (UTC)
:I think (TV series) should be sufficient in this case, unless someone tries to push out even more LoGH adaptations after this (which would be truly mind-boggling 0.o). [[User:Glacierfairy|Glacierfairy]] 04:15, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
:[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXEm5aaWHgI It has an official title now "Die Neue These" ("The New Thesis")] [[User:Fortress Maximus|Fortress Maximus]] 19:40, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
::Yes, and I wonder if we should retain the German subtitle as it is or is it better to translate that into English as well for this page. [[User:Glacierfairy|Glacierfairy]] 00:29, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

== Interview with ship designer for new series ==

http://gineiden-anime.com/special-interview3.html [[User:Vympel|Vympel]] 13:14, 30 December 2017 (UTC)

:I admit I am not a fan of the new designs for either side. I liked the old ''Brünhild'' with its nice clean lines. I also liked the solid shapes of the standard ships of both the Empire and Alliance, and how I could instantly tell every class of ship at a glance.  The new Imperial battleships seem excessively curvy and the Alliance battleships are just ugly bricks. The old Alliance battleships had a certain elegant brutality in their function over form approach that grew on me with time.  [[User:Iracundus|Iracundus]] 09:06, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

::Yeah I don't think I'll ever like the new designs as much as the old, but with any luck after watching the series (somehow???) it'll grow on me. [[User:Vympel|Vympel]] 08:02, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

== Screencaps! ==

Thought I'd put screencaps of the show somewhere, I figured here was as good a place as any [[User:Vympel|Vympel]] 23:52, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

Brünhild and Barbarossa

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img922/5029/vp1vca.jpg

Brünhild front and rear

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img922/3610/uHaiAl.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img924/7420/wAHUKS.jpg

Brünhild in the new adaptation has a translucent hull, through which its cannons fire without apertures:

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img924/7847/gUc9Ka.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img924/9149/hIHh2z.jpg

Fahrenheit's flagship Heimdall. Unclear if this is a unique ship.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img922/6531/jZjzNt.jpg

Another Heimdall type, or the Heimdall?

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img924/8317/qGvom7.jpg

Merkatz's Minerva, which is unique (so far) it seems:

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img923/5922/gN3xWU.jpg

Imperial armor piercing munitions:

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img923/6372/iyOmdn.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img922/6308/w8UuzA.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img924/5854/6VBCB8.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img924/1521/hp52VN.jpg

A bunch of Imperial ships up close, head on

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img922/8200/isgf8r.jpg

Leonidas and Pergamonn look very similar, but there are differences

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img924/7060/dy6sBG.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img923/3636/difXXX.jpg

Leonidas from the rear. Note the 'regular' battleship in the distance. The key identifying feature from this angle appears to be the position of the glowing yellow line along the hull flanks.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img923/5935/QATsFe.jpg

Multiple Alliance ship types:

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img922/1814/YSBTiy.jpg

:Nice collection! Now the issue would be on how these new designs should be integrated into Gineipaedia. I'll create a new category for Die Neue These images in the meantime. [[User:Glacierfairy|Glacierfairy]] 02:20, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

::Great idea. IMO, the new designs should all have their own pages, like Memory Alpha has say, the 'prime' Enterprise and the JJ Abrams-vs Enterprise. [[User:Vympel|Vympel]] 02:27, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

== Yuichiro Umehara's illness ==

Do we know for a fact that Episode 9 is next week? Does that mean he's recovered and has recorded his lines? [[User:Vympel|Vympel]] 06:22, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

:It is possible they were already done before the illness. [[User:Iracundus|Iracundus]] 13:25, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

::Well, I'm basing my information from the official website [http://gineiden-anime.com/news/230 here]. The relevant portion says that episode 9's original timeslot would be replaced by a special programme featuring Umehara Yuichirou visiting the official theme cafe "Dining Cafe Iserlohn Fortress", and that the episode itself would be aired a week later, subject to changes. That special programme was filmed during mid-April, before his illness. Anyway, I also agree that filming should already be concluded for this season. [[User:Glacierfairy|Glacierfairy]] 13:30, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

== 13th episode? ==

There's a 13th episode listed as Amritsar? Where'd that come from? [[User:Vympel|Vympel]] 15:20, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
:Yeah, I'm also curious about that. So far I've not seen any indication in the official website about a 13th episode. [[User:Glacierfairy|Glacierfairy]] 02:26, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
::The teaser at the end of the 12th episode has been recorded and the narrtor announces the next episode in the exact same way as the previous ones. So, there is a thirteenth episode and it will follow the 12th the next week. ;) [[User:Saga|Saga]] 08:22, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
:::Huh. Cool. Where'd you hear that anyway? And how come the official website hasn't listed it? [[User:Vympel|Vympel]] 00:07, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
::::The 12th episode has been edited before broadcasting and the teaser for the next episode disappeared. I removed the 13th episode from the page. Sorry for the inconvenience.
::::: No worries. [[User:Vympel|Vympel]] 05:03, 27 June 2018 (UTC)