Talk:Panzer IV

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Wow, and I was going to write this baby up like tomorrow. Well done. The LD art binder dubs it an Armored Vehicle as opposed to a main battle tank - specifically, its a Panzerfahrzeug IV or "Panzer IV" for short. Should we call it that instead? Vympel 11:26, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

Well, it is basically a tank (though it also seems to have extra capacity for passengers) and I figured we might as well be precise, because the Empire also has those armored cars that are used in cities, and then also those wire guided missile carriers seen in the Gaiden. The Alliance in turn has the tanks, and also the vehicles seen in episode 14 and 24 which resemble either APCs or IFVs. Thus I feel simple "Armored Vehicle" is too generic. The rationale is somewhat similar to why the Imperial Gunship was translated as gunship despite the space German saying something different. I suppose we could highlight it is "Panzer IV" somewhere to show it is not the 1st Imperial tank design. If you want you can write up the Alliance tank. Iracundus 12:34, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

Well in this instance it may not "space german" because Panzerfahrzeug is a real German term that is used today (you can put it in google) to describe vehicles like their Boxer. If you're familiar with WW2 tanks, the "Panzerfahrzeug IV" designation is pretty similar in style to the Panzerkampfwagen designation used by the Germans to name their tanks (they had a Panzerkampfwagen IV - abreviated as either Pzkpfw. IV or Panzer IV) - which may indicate that if it was intended to be a tank, they would've called it that instead of Panzerfahrzeug. That also brings me to how the vehicle is used - not only for something you'd expect a tank to do, but also as a recon vehicle (Reinhard and Kircheis taking it out alone in SWV)) and APC/IFV (disgorging troops to assault the Alliance base later in SWV). This is especially so when it seems clear that even though the vehicle only needs two crew, it has space for more than this (by itself this isn't decisive though - the Israeli Merkava MBT is similar). Also the Alliance equivalent can deploy a UGV (Unmanned Ground Vehicle - don't you love it how prescient the show was in this respect?) which is also out of line with a main battle tank role. In relation to the other vehicles, I thought perhaps this could be called Panzerfahrzeug IV, whilst "armored fighting vehicle" could simply be used for the others - we don't have much information on them after all, apart from their general characteristics and their variable weapons mounts. Thoughts? Vympel 12:59, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

I guess it could be amended to tank instead of MBT (though as you say the Merkava does what these tanks do). The ground vehicles in LOGH are really kind of general purpose do everything vehicles. Due to the emphasis on space combat in the series and in-universe paradigm, the ground forces are really the neglected sideshow arm of the military and it appears they don't benefit from a whole range of specialized designs. It may also be a situation similar to how MBTs replaced the old designations of medium and heavy tank, as they were amalgamated into one category. The line between APC, IFV, and MBT may have become less relevant with the dominance of space warfare and over time these classes may have converged and merged.

However I am wondering what the policy is because for example we would have an entry on Imperial battleship, not "Schlachtschiff", otherwise we might be deluged in German terms for what is meant to be an English language wiki. Another minor point is whether we make a separate entry for the wire guided missile carrier or list as a variant. Iracundus 13:15, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, there is that. Probably just list it in name variation (I want to put Schlachtschiff and such in the name variations for the standard ships as it is - German is cool ...). In terms of the wire guided missile tank, I'd just call it a variant. The chassis appears the same. Also, is the Pz IV ever called the Japanese for "tank" in the Gaiden? I believe the wire-guided missile variant is, but I just ran through SWV, and they continuously call it "armored vehicle" in the fansub. Which seems unwieldy. Vympel 13:22, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

The wire guided missile variant is just called a 用線飛彈車 in the Chinese subs and the Japanese audio is 用線ミサイル車, which is the same. It is technically just "wire guided missile vehicle" (strictly speaking there is no "armoured" in that phrase). Tank in Japanese is 戦車. Iracundus 13:38, 25 December 2011 (UTC)