Talk:Galactic Empire

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Revision as of 14:31, 3 November 2013

Notes

Images

• Note: for the bottom of the imperial civil war sub-section, I'd like to place a screenshot of the scene when mittermeyer/ruenthal's fleets descend on Odin (where Hilde watches from a window and says that... just awesome line). Easily one of my favorite scenes from the show. Canary 05:23, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

Deleted Content

• When Rudolf von Goldenbaum created the aristocracy, he 'gifted' his new nobles new names — German names. This, coupled with his genocides of the genetically impure, have led many fans to think of the Galactic Empire as 'space Germans', or some sort of evolved form of NAZI fascism. This is a misconception. Though common Imperial names are Germanic in origin, there is nothing to suggest that the Empire favoured any one ethnicity over another. The fact that the Imperial citizens who fled the Empire to found the Alliance began adopting names of all origins for themselves and their families supports this. (From Appendices-->Background Information).

I was just about to ask about this when I read the above. Not concerned about the space Nazi thing, that's simply ridiculous, but about racism between the Empire and New Empire. I understand that nothing is explicitly said about ethnicity and racism other than Rudolf's choice to give the 'all white' new nobility germanic names at the empire's founding. However, my issue is with the fact, at least in my memory, that no ethnicities other than caucasians are ever seen residing anywhere within the Empire. Of course I realize that non-caucasian peoples must have lived on within the Empire for generations, at least until Heinessen led the exodus, but I find it very strange that not a single person of color is ever seen once as an Imperial citizen, other than possibly in some of the grizzly images resulting from the Inferior Genes Exclusion Act. The amount various ethnicities that are shown within the Alliance, even when limiting it to only civilians, would seem to indicate that the animators and author were well aware of the undercurrent of racism that could be implied from the series. I just think that they would have shown an Imperial peasant or two of African or Asian descent if they wanted to show that the Empire was not only caucasian. When Machungo was visiting the Empire with Julian, well after Reinhard's reforms had taken full effect and he had taken the throne, the Imperials seem to be completely indifferent to his presence. I believe that this is their attempt to show that the Imperials are not racist in the slightest, at least not anymore, but I just don't see how the citizens of the Alliance are so ethnically diverse while the citizens of the Empire, commoners specifically, are so uniformly caucasian without some form of racial prejudice in the Empire's past which would have pushed all other ethnicities into situations and circumstances that would have them completely vacate and flee to the Alliance. I also understand that the argument of "just because I didn't see it, it means it's not there" is not usual, but I do think it warrants some discussion due to the seemingly understanding author and animator who so consistently kept up the varied ethnicities within the Alliance, yet completely omitted any hint of other ethnicities within the Empire other than at it's foundation. I'd love more info on this if someone ever came across anything pertaining to this. Thanks. Strayor 07:08, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

Remember that much of Imperial society we see is on the planet Odin, which as capital and showpiece of the Empire would conform to Rudolf's Germanic biases. While yes, on the frontier agricultural planets, we see apparent Caucasian peasants, but this does not mean there are no non-Caucasians in the Empire. There obviously had to have been if the Alliance gained sufficient immigrants after the Battle of Dagon. The other alternative of all non-Caucasians being reduced to Arle Heinessen's group is too far fetched to believe. Rather I think non-Caucasians and those that refused to conform to the Empire's enforced Germanic culture would have been consigned to the marginal planets to scrape a hard living. Really at its heart, LOGH is not a tale about racial dynamics, not really. If you stripped off the Germanic names, the stories of the Empire could easily have been placed in Imperial China. Indeed many of the palace and harem politics are inspired by Imperial Chinese dynastic politics. Iracundus 10:38, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

Thats speculation, ultimately. I could easily say that the Galactic Empire is less culturally diverse than the Alliance as well, and visually it seems to give that idea. But, that, too, is unknown. FPA Forever

160,000 people, the number at the founding of the Alliance, of which only a portion are non-Caucasian, would be too small to have such a wide range of diversity as seen both initially at the Battle of Dagon, and subsequently later. Throughout the series we see a range of non-Caucasian characters in the Alliance, and there are far too many to explain as purely due to descent from the original Alliance founders. 160,000 people divided into families, and then existing for a bit over a century would result either in blended ethnicity or only a tiny number of pure ethnic background families. That is before consideration also of the health and genetic consequences of what would amount to a population bottleneck effect, or founder effect. The only other source that could explain the wide range of backgrounds seen in the Alliance at the frequencies they are shown to appear would have to be via the exodus from the Empire following Dagon. Iracundus 12:23, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

Still, I think the Free Planets Alliance is racially and perhaps culturally more varied. The fact that the show goes to great lengths to show many different races and many different names, while the Galactic Empire characters, including lower rung characters, were white and had german names, all seem to point in that direction. FPA Forever

Iracundus, I don't see how what I said is all that much different from what you are suggesting. We only disagree about small details it seems. As I stated, I am well aware that there must have been numerous ethnicities within the Empire, and I should have clarified that I meant "at least" literally, and that that particular point is the absolute proof that ethnicities had to be in the Empire "at least" to that time. I thought the Battle of Dagon and following Imperial refugee flood to be common knowledge, and I too believe that the vast majority of diverse ethnic groups made their way to the Alliance in those years, but I still think that if sufficient numbers were to remain in the Empire we would have seen a few, because as I said, the animators and writers were very aware of this issue and purposefully did not show them as Imperial citizens. I also think there were a few remnants here and there, and am well aware racism is not a major theme and that much of the workings of the Imperial Government are nothing but a representation of Imperial China with Prussian themes thrown on top, but I think that we should include a paragraph on this topic in the main article, as we cannot ignore this obvious issue that, if not existing in the recent history of the Empire, would certainly have been a major issue in its past. I guess I'm asking permission to write it. I'll be good. Plus you always edit what I write to have it be accurate and make it read well anyway so I don't think it could do too much damage. Strayor 14:31, 3 November 2013 (UTC)