User talk:FPA Forever

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Revision as of 01:17, 14 July 2014

Mutation of Titles

Could you please tell me more how my titles mutated? Thats easy to change. FPA Forever

Hello!

Hey there, just wanted to say welcome, and thanks in advance for your contributions. If you have any questions, feel free to leave a message on my talk page (or any other talk page, for that matter) :)  ♥ kine @ 00:42, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Ideal to Fight For story

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The whole story in the OTL revolves around Reinhard representing the benevolent dictatorship while Yang represented democracy's loyal servants that will hold even a corrupt democracy higher than the best of autocracies. The reason I say this is that the purpose of the story seems to favor Reinhard in so many ways is that, just as the other great historical figures, he has a great number of occurrences that would have either destroyed him or propelled him along his path, and of course, Reinhard being Reinhard, he is mostly successful and always saved from danger, only to succomb to a unusual death as many of the greats do. This only happens once or twice in a century, give or take, and those that succeed on Reinhard's level are even fewer than that. These most successful of successful figures were directly connected with at least one other immensely successful figure. Cyrus the Great put in motion the events to set the stage for Alexander the Great. Genghis Khan did the same for Tamerlane. I know a history lesson isn't all that exciting, but I am thinking the best option for you may be set the stage in the 845 UC era or whenever you want it. If you don't, I may haha. The only way to prolong the FPA is to make it so that Reinhard was not the influential historical figure he was in the OTL, which is a fundamental change to the story. If you want to argue that Yang was the other important figure in the era, I would agree, but not in the way I am meaning. Yang would have never pursued political power, and lacking ambition unfortunately keeps you off history's most influential figures list, regardless of how successful he was. Now if he were to ignore the order to cease hostilities and fire at the 2nd Battle of Vermillion, then it would be another story, but again that would require a fundamental change to a fundamental character's character. I always thought of Yang being like Yi Sun-sin, who I personally believe was the greatest admiral of all time yet he never used his successes to achieve personal advancement, even when it meant he had to endure unjust charges against him, always acting only in the interest of his nation with no care for his own position or rank.

So that being said, here's the ways I can come up with to prolong the Alliance without completely altering the "feel" of LOGH. Perhaps you have Greenhill save the remaining Alliance fleets from engaging at Amritsar and be able to somewhat recover.

And this is about half of what I wrote but it logged me out and I lost it forgetting to copy but yet again I am out of time so I will complete this later. Strayor 21:38, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

Hmmm... well, the story is already written up to a certain point, here are the highlights.

-Due to slightly different events, Jessica Edwards and Yang have a somewhat bigger row about Yang pretty much Rolling over whenever he could do something meaningful to better the war situation. Because of that, Yang never goes to Peace Party HQ, never meets Jessica, and as such she dies in the explosion.

-Yang, distraught over her death and still not over it, is relatively more outspoken against Falk's plan, and manages to break the ice enough that the OTHER fleet commanders add their voices to his protests against the plan. Not wanting eight of his key commanders on the edge of handing in their resignation, Sitolet and Lobos allow them to restructure the plan enough that they'd be able to get the Hell out if the Invasion went South.

-The invasion is slower and more cautious, and when Reinhard eventually attacks - because he has pressure of his own, after all - the damage inflicted is much reduced, allowing all of the fleets to break out with varyind amounts of damage and gather at Dionysus Starzone.

-The Battle of Dionysus ends in an Imperial Victory, but its not a crushing victory. In all, the Alliance lost about 40,000-45,000 ships, and the Empire lost about 20,000-25,000 ships. On the Alliance side, Lefebvre and Al-Salem died, and on the Imperial side, Bittenfeld was killed by a joint assault from Yang and Ulanf during Dionysus.

- At this moment, the fleets have just returned to Iserlohn, and the Fleet Commanders are about to be debriefed by Lobos and Greenhill, with Negroponty representing Trunicht and the Department of Defense.

Thoughts? FPA Forever

By the way, the reason why the Alliance Fleets were able to return to Iserlohn? This invasion was a few weeks later than in the OTL, so as the Battle of Dionysus was ending, Friedrich IV died. Reinhard made the choice of letting the Alliance go so he'd have the military strength to take advantage of the coming political maelstrom. FPA Forever

Ok, that helps a lot. I won't bother filling in the rest of my piece then.

Well, if this is your starting point I feel like two things of the already written storyline should be addressed real quick. First, if you kill Bittenfeld, you lose a very easy way to get the Imperials in trouble in your future story. He falls into trap after trap and only at the very end of the OTL did he finally start to show true tact with fleet command. Because of this, he is of great use to you as a plot device for getting the Empire to stumble. Might I suggest Kempf instead as with your new timeline I doubt the 8th battle of Iserlohn would have ever occurred. Also, you should be careful with the use of civil disobedience in the military. While it could have worked in this instance the commanders may have just preferred to bend and selectively hear orders in the field, as real life commanders do, in order to prevent anything too catastrophic. There are a lot of ways that commanders can do this in order to carve their own path under vague and far reaching orders, such as Falk's. Keep in mind the military resignations can be rejected by their commanding officer, and refusing command after that could easily result in court martial. Since it's already written, I doubt this means anything to you but I felt you should be made aware at least, so that nothing is thought of too late. I hope I don't come across as saying "this is the way you should do it" or anything like that. I just want you to have all your bases covered.

Make sure to have Greenhill avoid entering the coup somehow. He joined to keep it from getting out of control so he needs to be removed from Heinessen for a while. Give him some post or command that accomplishes that. Rebelo and his new party will eventually take power, but Trunicht would likely be with them somehow. He may be a horrible leader but he is a very savvy politician and is able to ride any sort of movement to power in some form. He would not stick with the pro-war if they became isolated. Have Reinhard save Westerland, and therefore prolong the civil war but even without it his popularity would still be as great as it was. Here's where it gets a little more tricky. Have Reinhard seize Fezzan and be stalled at the Alliance side by Bucock while Yang holds Reuenthal off at Iserlohn. After a year or so of hostilities and giving and gaining ground, a peace is signed where the Alliance recognizes Fezzan's annexation and cedes Iserlohn Fortress back to the Empire in return for the abolishment of the Alliance's debt held by Fezzan and peace. However, that would cause upheavals to Fezzan's economy but I think they'd overcome it. I personally think you should not prolong the civil war too long to give Reinhard time to interact with Yang on peaceful terms before he dies. But then you have Terraism playing in, which it would be awesome to see a joint Alliance/Imperial Terraist hunt, and Rubinsky and Boltik, where do they play in and where are they now? Obviously Boltik is needed for the capture of Fezzan, so Rubinsky's plan needs to backfire like it did in the OTL. Enough on that for now since the story is Alliance centric.

As far as Alliance internal structure, I think your earlier analogy of it being like D.C and New York is on the right track but I would include L.A. and Chicago in that as well. Heinessen is the heart of everything Alliance, and as such has a disproportionate amount of influence over the FPA. Even if Heinessen didn't want to wield such influence, eventually the good natured politicians all too aware of Earth's treatment of her colonies would be replaced by those only seeking votes. But even still, it seems as though the other planets are not rebellious or wishing to cede in way, El Facil being a special occurrence. The FPA seems to be just beginning to show signs rampant corruption that can no longer be covered up so you may be able to delay the collapse with a sane Rebelo free to maneuver. Out of time again. Strayor 17:18, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

I do not see the Alliance agreeing to both Imperial annexation of Fezzan and also returning Iserlohn to the Empire as that creates an unstable equilibrium and therefore also an unstable peace. The Empire then would have the majority of the resources and also the decisive strategic positioning for a future invasion of the Alliance. The Alliance would be ripe for the taking at any point then, and the temptation would be high for Reinhard or any other Imperial person in power to seek any casus belli to complete the conquest against an exhausted Alliance. Control or at least the denial of exit from the 2 Corridors is a core Alliance security interest. Iserlohn and Fezzan would both serve as supply bases in the event of any future conflict which is why Iserlohn's construction was such a setback for the Alliance. Previously the long distance and difficulty of supplying Imperial expeditions kept the Alliance somewhat secure. Abolishment of Alliance sovereign debt to Fezzan would no more than give a brief breather as the Alliance would remain vulnerable to renewed Imperial attack in the future, and this external threat would likely be exploited by the pro-war politicians to drive the population towards renewed ruinous re-militarization. There is nothing like a looming external enemy and an "us vs. them" mentality to whip people into a renewed bout of war hysteria. The old war propaganda started to fail IMO precisely because the war appeared to be going nowhere previously, with the Alliance in no imminent danger after so many generations. That might change if the circumstances changed to put the Alliance heartland exposed to the Empire. Iracundus 13:11, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

I'll answer a few things. First, the Fleet Commanders objecting to the Falk Plan. The plan was fatally flawed from the get-go, possessing no strategy and zero back-up plan, it was an operation based on pure faith and what can only be wishful thinking. As for attitude, Falk was extremely rude and arrogant towards the Fleet Commanders, arrogantly answering Ulanf with empty words, all but scoffing at Bucock, and going as far as to accuse Yang of aiding the enemy, only because these men questioned his plan. Yet, at no point was Falk censured by Sitolet, Lobos or Greenhill, the three officers who could have done so if they wanted.

Yang was more distaught over Frederica's death because it came in differently. He was still mourning, so Falk rubbed him worse than in the OTL. Still, all he did was hang on to his position more than in the OTL, and then the other commanders, who really didn't like the plan, jumped in. All they got was the right to change some elements to the operation, to make it feasible. And have a workable plan if things went South (which the commanders knew it would). I, myself, think Sitolet was quite happy with this, Greenhill as well, and Lobos was just glad the commanders would go forward with the plan with minor adjustments to it.

Second, the peace plan: I don't think the Alliance would ever willingly give up Iserlohn, especially not if Fezzan was annexed. The Star Fleet in my story took a heavy blow, but remains an effective battle force. Fezzan is aware of that, and would more than likely offer the Alliance a extremely advantageous Financial deal to prevent their loss of independance. In fact, the best scenario for the Alliance is an independant Fezzan on one hand, the Alliance-held Iserlohn on the other. It would be the sort of thing which would protect the Alliance just enough to even the odds. FPA Forever

What effect would Dwight Greenhill ultimately refusing to rebel against the government have on a potential Alliance Civil War? How critical do you guys think he was in making it the big thing it became? And in the Imperial Civil War, would the prevention of Westerland have changed that war much? FPA Forever

Dwight Greenhill was critical for enabling the NSMC to gain control of the government and also possibly swaying some of the undecided junior officers since he was senior and respected. Without him, I do not see the NSMC being much more than the rebellion of one fleet and maybe some isolated garrisons. As for Westerland, without it, the civil war would have dragged on longer. Even an intercepted attack could still be dismissed by the Lippstadt PR as enemy propaganda. Until Westerland, I see most of the general public as having little personal investment in a civil war involving the nobles and the government, and just sticking to their jobs and duties. Lot of the Lippstadt support was from these status quo types and these were the ones that deserted following Westerland. A prolonged Imperial civil war would leave the Empire weaker than OTL if more Lippstadt ships ended up destroyed instead of surrendered to be absorbed into Reinhard's fleets, and also would mean Reinhard would be further along in his disease if the war took longer. Iracundus 23:44, 13 July 2014 (UTC)