Talk:Nobility

From Gineipaedia, the Legend of Galactic Heroes wiki

Revision as of 08:55, 23 November 2021

Separate or combined?

Are we going to have separate articles for these different factions of the nobility? We have one for High Nobles, but i had figured we could just redirect that to this page, the same way we redirect Fezzan Corridor to Navigation corridors?  ♥ kine @ 14:18, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

?? I brought this up earlier. I thought you had moved things into different pages? Originally, High nobles/nobles/reformer nobles were all one page. Canary 14:27, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Did i really? Maybe i was drunk :(

Do you prefer them all together as well then?  ♥ kine @ 14:46, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, I prefer them merged. I think, in general, logh is such a rich setting that we are going to have (and already have) a whole lot of pages, so the simpler we keep things, the better.

Military service

I vaguely recall this was either mentioned in an episode or written somewhere, but I don't remember where. Were the nobility exempt from military conscription that the common Imperial citizens had to do? —Goldenbaum Loyalist 22:13, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

In HBSHBL: 'Candidate for Succeeding a Count's Family', Kircheis talks to Martin Bufholtz, and that is where the information about the mandatory military service of 2 years for commoners comes from. I cannot offhand recall a specific source explicitly saying the nobles were exempt. Things like Grand Duke Herbert including drinking friends among his military advisors suggest however 2 possibilities. The first is that maybe nobles were exempt from the mandatory service. Grand Duke Herbert's initial enjoyment of playing "soldier" seems to suggest this first option though it is not conclusive evidence. The second is they were not exempt but they got safe and easy jobs far from the front lines. Iracundus 01:47, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

Princes

Just as a note, and my own nitpick with the subs, the title of "Prince" (皇子, as in son of an emperor) actually is never used in the series to the best of my knowledge. The title Crown Prince (皇太子) does get used for the designated heir. The only known instances of the title Grand Duke (大公) all seem to be held by sons of the Kaiser. Grand Duke Herbert, Grand Duke Clementz, Grand Duke (in addition to his Crown Prince title) Richard etc... I wonder whether it is a de facto title for any princes in the Goldenbaum dynasty. Iracundus 03:44, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

Perhaps. For example, in East Slavic history, the title of Grand Duke and Prince/Grand Prince are often used interchangeably. In the Russian Empire the sons of the the Tsar were given the title of Veliky Knyaz, which can be translated as either Grand Duke or Grand Prince (although the latter is more accurate). —Goldenbaum Loyalist 17:02, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

Imperial noble ranks

Adccording to the German nobility system,

侯爵 (koushaku) must be translated to Fürst (Prince of...). It cannot be traslated as Markgraf (Marquis) which is just a form of Graf (Count). There is no tradition of promoting a Graf to a Markgraf (because it is the equal rank). If some Graf to be promoted, they will get promotion to Fürst, like German chancellor Otto von Bismarck.

Also in Japanese language, they have translated Fürst as 侯爵. For example, "Fürst von Bismarck" has been translated as ビスマルク侯爵.
Someone claimed that 侯爵 can be translated as Markgraf, that is wrong. The Japanese has translated Markgraf as 辺境伯 (henkyou-haku). WalkerEmp 09:40, 31 October 2021 (UTC)

That might be true in German, but in Gineipaedia, English naming conventions take precedence over German, so 侯爵 would be translated as "Marquis" and not "Fürst". Glacierfairy 05:51, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

Even the Gineipaedia take English naming over German, 侯爵 still should be translated as "Prince" (Fürst) not "Marquis" (Markgraf). WalkerEmp 19:09, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

No, what I meant was that English translations of the Japanese titles take precedence over German translations of the Japanese titles. Glacierfairy 01:42, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

No,侯爵 is a direct copy of the Chinese nobility system and is translated as Marquis, not Prince. Prince as in sons of a king are 王子. Princes as in independent rulers of a principality are translated as 王, and "king" is a more appropriate translation. Neither of these describe the rank of 侯爵 which is the 2nd highest noble title, a step below 公爵. Iracundus 02:18, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

This topic concerns German, Japanese and English. It have nothing to do with Chinese in the first place. I may give you another example: "Fürst zu Hohenlohe-Schillingsfürst" has been translated ホーエンローエ＝シリングスフュルスト侯爵 in Japanese, and Prince of Hohenlohe-Schillingsfürst in English. That's why I say "侯爵" should be translated "Prince" in English.

The German Dukes (Herzog) has dignity = British Prince of Wales, German Feudal Princes (Fürst) has dignity = British Dukes, The German Counts (Graf) has dignity = British Earls. WalkerEmp 22:52, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

No, it has everything to do with the Chinese noble system because that is both what Japan's system and the Galactic Empire's is based off of. The Galactic Empire superficial Germanic trappings aside is Imperial China. 侯爵 remains Marquis. Dukes remain 公爵. Iracundus 08:53, 23 November 2021 (UTC)