Talk:Triglav

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Appearances

Pretty sure we never see the Triglav again after Vermilion? Vympel 13:04, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Oh, i think you are right. I was trying to keep track of three ships at once and must have got mixed up....  ♥ kine @ 13:19, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Fair enough. Hey, whilst you're looking, if you find out just where the hell the Hyperion pops up again after Vermilion (as in, the first time) let me know. That they were somehow able to sneak Yang's former ship out of getting scrapped has always bothered me, and I'm not past Episode 51/52 in my battles thread to find out myself (skipping fast through episodes to check things always leaves the possibility of leaving things out). Vympel 13:21, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Seems like it first re-appears in 073, 'The Edict of the Winter Rose Garden'. Apparently Trung had managed to keep it from being destroyed and then he gave it to Murai to take back to Iserlohn.  ♥ kine @ 13:52, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Awesome, thanks for that.Vympel 15:01, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Purpose

For the 'purpose' in the infobox i put that it was a flagship of the 13th Fleet, but this is sort of misleading. It was Dusty's flagship, and he was part of the 13th Fleet, but of course it wasn't the 13th Fleet flagship. Does anyone know a better way of phrasing this?  ♥ kine @ 04:27, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

I ran into this issue when I put up the Abai Geser entry last night. Rear Admiral Stokes was almost certainly either the Vice Commander of the 11th Fleet (i.e. like Fischer was for the Yang Fleet) or a squadron commander (like Nguyen van Huu and Dusty Attenborough). http://gineipaedia.com/wiki/Abai_Geser - what do you think of "Sub-Unit"? Alternatively, perhaps "Squadron flagsip - [x] fleet" or something? Vympel 04:40, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Oh! Another thing! The Triglav, as far as we know - was never part of the 13th Fleet. Remember the 13th Fleet ceased to exist when the Yang Fleet was formed. Uniform patches changed and everything. Yang Fleet - or Iserlohn Station Fleet (can't remember what the unit patch actually says) is the correct name. Vympel 04:44, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Oh, yeah. The patch has a Y on it, and the name of that one episode was 'The Yang Fleet Goes Out', so i guess it's Yang Fleet

As far as the sub-divisions... i don't know much at all about the military, but Wikipedia says that a fleet is divided into squadrons, which are usually commanded by a rear or vice admiral. The scale is quite a bit different obviously (the number of ships given for the fledgling 13th Fleet in 'Birth of the 13th Fleet' is about 22 times the number in the entire US Navy), but i guess it's the most analogous term. Maybe we could do something like this?

Purpose: Flagship (Yang Fleet, Attenborough Squadron)

???  ♥ kine @ 05:13, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Sure, looks good. In relation to the unit patches, check this out:- http://www.alba-creates.com/shinseihin.html (this collection is for sale on HLJ, but its outrageously expensive). I *think* the Yang Fleet patch says Iserlohn Garrison Fleet or Iserlohn Station Fleet, but I can't be certain. Vympel 05:42, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

By which I mean check out the thing at the bottom of the page, sorry. Vympel 05:44, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Oh, yeah, actually, here's something i bet you'll like, now that you mention that:

http://gogosanzi.blog46.fc2.com/blog-entry-73.html

It does seem to put 'Iserlohn Garrison Fleet' ahead. I'm not sure though, it feels like they refer to it both ways. Canary, do you have any further insight on this?  ♥ kine @ 07:40, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Ah, cool. My POV is that whilst the official name on the unit patch is Iserlohn Garrison Fleet, the show clearly says Yang Fleet enough times that in the Yang Fleet page we can simply mention the unit patch name. Anyone watching LOGH will know Yang Fleet, after all. Vympel 08:04, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Going back to the terminology we should use, i've noticed that the Japanese subtitles provide some guidance on this. For the Muffuese, it says 'マリノ 分艦隊 旗艦' (spaces added for clarity) — '艦隊' means fleet, but with the addition of '分' it becomes something like (literally) 'sub-fleet'. Google suggests 'Contingent' as a possible alternative translation, and that sounds reasonable

So, 'Marino Contingent Flagship' or 'Marino Squadron Flagship'? Which do we like more?  ♥ kine @ 00:49, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

CA's DVD rip did a translation of Marino's flagship subtitle in Episode 80 that called it the "Marino Detached Fleet Flagship" - is that another possibility? Contingent/ squadron / sub-fleet / detached fleet? I'm happy with any of them, consistency is my main game. Vympel 01:35, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Hmm, i'm not sure. Google seems to suggest that a 'detached fleet' is one that has been sent away on an independent mission (for example it mentions ships leaving their normal 'posts' in the Mediterranean to guard the Channel) — which doesn't seem general enough for our purposes. On the other hand, Wikipedia says that a 'detachment' can sometimes be a permanent sub-unit of a larger group, which of course applies here.

I am not sure what how to decide (again i know little about the military aside from what i read online), they both seem like good potential possibilities. If you don't have a preference, maybe Canary does  ♥ kine @ 02:39, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

It may be that 'detached' was only appropriate for that specific episode - you'll recall Marino had a very small unit sent on his own to try to make it so they could all strike at Brunhild (they failed, but poor Steinmetz was killed in the process by fire from the rest of Yang's forces). Vympel 02:46, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Squadron is more appropriate without having additional connotations. If you look at the breakdown of Reinhard's spindle formation, you see it is really composed of many subformations. Likewise especially in 4th season, you see ships arranged in lines or cross subformations. Finally, it would explain all those times the bridge crew of a flagship shout that such and such ship has been destroyed and random name officer killed or wounded. They are shouting the destruction of these separate subformation command ships. Iracundus 12:50, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

Spartanians

Conflicting sources. Data Book says 42, FFC says 16. Iracundus 13:00, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

Wiki is really slow tonight! Anyway, next time kine is here will ask her to develop a cite code for the data book. Need to think about how best to demarcate the info in the background info section so it looks good - what subheadings to use, etc. Vympel 15:15, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

Oh wait, is it this source? http://gineipaedia.com/wiki/Data_Book:_Mechanic_%26_Seiy%C5%AB_Encyclopaedia Vympel 15:17, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

The Triglav is a pain. It's kind of complex with irregular new stuff but nor clear picture or drawings. Anyway, although, I have my doubts about functions... Counting the launch-tubes 2 x (12 head_sides + 18 engine_block_sides) = 60. Note the engine block number may vary by one+ due to unclear picture. Now to analysis. The size and strip is similar to other flagships, and those having launch-tubes seem to have about 2 x 10 launch-tubes. The Hyperion is one of them and is about the same size, too. My guess on the official numbers is that the writers themselves didn't know where to look or count, the idea itself went missing long before. Almael 00:21, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

That is the source. Iracundus 09:46, 23 September 2011 (UTC)